12 main messages and 30 basic fakes in Vladimir Putin’s interview with Tucker Carlson
February 18, 2024 by Andrei Illarionov
By inviting Tucker Carlson (agreeing to his request) to give an interview, Vladimir Putin pursued a goal that was previously not just unattainable, but previously unthinkable – gaining direct access to an English-speaking (and, therefore, international) audience of tens, if not hundreds millions of listeners around the world. What are were Putin’s most important messages to this audience?
Putin once again declared Ukraine an “artificial state” created by Lenin and Stalin, and made territorial claims to its lands, proposing to divide it by transferring what he calls the “historical lands” of neighboring states to respectively Russia, Poland, Hungary, Romania:
“…according to the well-known Molotov-Ribbentrop protocols, part of these territories went to Russia, including Western Ukraine. Russia, under the name of the Soviet Union, thus returned to its historical territories…
…Soviet Ukraine received a huge number of territories that never had anything to do with it, primarily the Black Sea region…
And after World War II, Ukraine received another part of not only the Polish territories before the war – today Western Ukraine, part of the Hungarian territories and part of the Romanian ones. Part of the territories was also taken from Romania and Hungary, and they, these territories, became part of Soviet Ukraine and are still there. Therefore, we have every reason to say that, of course, Ukraine, in a certain sense, is an artificial state created by the will of Stalin…
In this sense, of course, it is quite possible, if not to say that they have the right to this – to return these lands of theirs, then, in any case, it is understandable…
But I know for sure that the Hungarians who live there, of course, want to return to their historical homeland…
They tell me: no, these are not artists, these are Hungarians. I say: what are they doing here? Why, this is their land, they live here.”
Putin asks the West, led by the United States, to stop supplying weapons and military assistance to Ukraine.
“….if you really want to stop the fighting, you need to stop the supply of weapons – everything will be over within a few weeks, that’s all…”
“Financial support – $72 billion – was given, Germany is in second place, other European countries, tens of billions of dollars go to Ukraine. There is a huge flow of weapons coming.”
Putin fears the participation of regular units of the armed forces of NATO countries in military operations on the side of Ukraine:
Carlson: … “Chuck Schumer, I think, said yesterday: we need to continue to fund Ukraine, or in the end American soldiers will have to fight in Ukraine instead of Ukraine. How do you evaluate such a statement?”
Putin: “This is a provocation, and a cheap provocation at that. I don’t understand why American soldiers should fight in Ukraine… If someone has the desire to send regular troops, this will certainly put humanity on the brink of a very serious, global conflict. It is obvious.
Does the United States need this? For what? Thousands of kilometers from national territory! Don’t have anything to do? You have a lot of problems at the border, problems with migration, problems with the national debt – more than 33 trillion dollars. There’s nothing to do – you need to fight in Ukraine?”
Putin is painfully worried about the reduction in Russian gas exports to Europe and asks to restore its pumping:
“Nord Stream 2 was damaged, but one pipe is alive and well, and it can supply gas to Europe, but Germany does not open it. We’re ready, please.
There is another route through Poland, Yamal – Europe is called, a large flow can also be carried out. Poland closed it, but Poland is taking advantage of the Germans, receiving money from pan-European funds, and the main donor to these pan-European funds is Germany. Germany feeds Poland to a certain extent. And they took and closed the route to Germany. For what? I don’t understand.
Ukraine, to which the Germans supply weapons and give money. The second sponsor after the United States in terms of financial assistance to Ukraine is Germany. Two gas routes pass through the territory of Ukraine. They took one route and simply closed it, the Ukrainians. Open a second route and, please, get gas from Russia. They don’t open.
Why don’t the Germans say: “Listen, guys, we are giving you money and weapons. Unscrew the valve, please, let gas flow from Russia for us. We buy liquefied gas at exorbitant prices in Europe, this reduces the level of our competitiveness and the economy as a whole to zero. Do you want us to give you money? Let us exist normally, let our economy earn money, we give you money from there.” No, they don’t do that. Why? Ask them. (Knocks on the table.) What’s here and what’s in their heads is the same thing. The people there are very incompetent.”
Putin is sensitive to sanctions against Russian foreign exchange reserves, calling them “a blow to American power, a huge alarm for the whole world”:
“[The dollar is] the main weapon for maintaining U.S. power in the world. Once the political leadership decided to use the dollar as a political tool, they attacked this American power. I don’t want to use any unliterary expressions, but this is stupidity and a huge mistake.
Look what’s happening in the world. Even among U.S. allies, dollar reserves are now dwindling. Everyone looks at what is happening and begins to look for ways to protect themselves. But if in relation to some countries the United States applies such restrictive measures as limiting payments, freezing assets, and so on, this is a huge alarm and a signal for the whole world…
The United States has decided to limit our payments in dollars. I think it’s complete nonsense, you know, from the point of view of the interests of the United States itself, the taxpayers of the United States. Because it deals a blow to the US economy and undermines the power of the United States in the world.”
Putin declared the West historically doomed:
“… in 1992, in my opinion, the share of the G7 countries in the world economy was 47 percent, and in 2022 it fell, I think, to something like 30 percent. The share of the BRICS countries in 1992 was only 16 percent, but now it exceeds the level of the “seven”. And this is not connected with any events in Ukraine. The trends in the development of the world and the global economy are as I have just mentioned, and this is inevitable. This will continue to happen: as the sun rises, it’s impossible to stop…”
Putin announced plans to get rid of (physically eliminate?) those people whom he deems “Nazis,” among them Vladimir Zelensky:
“The President, the current President of today’s Ukraine, applauds him in the Canadian Parliament, gives him a standing ovation! How can we say that we have completely uprooted this ideology if what we see is happening today? This is what denazification is in our understanding. We need to get rid of those people who abandon this theory and practice in life and try to preserve it – that’s what denazification is. That’s what we mean by it.”
Putin announced his readiness to bargain (negotiate) on the exchange of the American journalist Evan Gershkovich taken hostage, for the Russian special services officer professional killer Vadim Krasikov, who killed Chechen Zelimkhan Khangoshvili in Berlin in 2019.
“…we, in principle, are ready to say that we do not exclude the possibility that we can do this with counter-movement from our partners.
And when I say ‘partners,’ I mean primarily representatives of special services. They are in contact with each other and they are discussing this topic. We have no taboo about not solving this problem. We are ready to solve it, but there are certain conditions that are discussed through partner channels between the intelligence services. It seems to me that we can agree on this…
Listen, I’ll tell you: sitting in one country, a country that is an ally of the United States, is a man who, for patriotic reasons, eliminated a bandit in one of the European capitals… What kind of person is this and is it a person? But there was a patriot who eliminated him in one of the European capitals. Whether he did it on his own initiative or not is another question.
I’m just talking about those people who are, in fact, under the control of the US authorities, no matter where they are in prison, and there is a dialogue between the intelligence services. This should be resolved quietly, calmly, and on a professional level. There are contacts, let them work.
I do not rule out that the person you mentioned, Mr. Gershkovich, may end up in his homeland. Why not? It makes no sense to more or less keep him in prison in Russia. But let the colleagues of our intelligence officers on the American side also think about how to solve the problems that our intelligence services face. We are not closed to negotiations. Moreover, these negotiations are ongoing, and there have been many cases when we reached an agreement. We can come to an agreement now, but we just have to negotiate.”
Putin said that he agreed on the Istanbul agreement, stopped by British Prime Minister Boris Johnson:
“…all our agreements reached in Istanbul…
We negotiated with Ukraine in Istanbul, we agreed, he knew about it. Moreover, the head of the negotiation group, Mr. Arakhamia, I think, is his last name, he still heads the faction of the ruling party, the party of the president in the Rada. He still heads the presidential faction in the Rada – in the country’s parliament, he still sits there. He even put his preliminary signature on this document that I am telling you about. But then he publicly declared to the whole world: ‘We were ready to sign this document, but Mr. Johnson, then the Prime Minister of Great Britain, came, dissuaded us from this and said that it was better to fight with Russia. They will give us everything so that we can return what was lost during the clashes with Russia. And we agreed with this proposal…’
…we created a large document in Istanbul, which was initialed by the head of the Ukrainian delegation. His signature is there on an excerpt from this agreement – not on everything, but on an excerpt. He put his signature, and then he said: ‘We were ready to sign, and the war would have ended a long time ago, a year and a half ago. But Mr. Johnson came and talked us out of it, and we missed this chance…’
And the fact that they submitted to the demands or persuasion of the former British Prime Minister Mr. Johnson, it seems to me that this is absurd and very, how to say, sad. Because, as Mr. Arakhamia said, ‘a year and a half ago we could have stopped these hostilities, stopped this war, but the British persuaded us, and we refused this.’ Where is Mr. Johnson now? And the war continues.”
Putin announced his readiness to negotiate with the West and Ukraine on his own terms:
“Isn’t it better to come to an agreement with Russia? To come to an agreement, already understanding the situation that is developing today, understanding that Russia will fight for its interests to the end, and, understanding this, in fact, return to common sense, begin to respect our country, its interests and look for solutions? I think it’s much smarter and more rational.”
“…Mr. President of Ukraine issued a decree prohibiting negotiations with us. Let him cancel this decree, and that’s it. We have never refused negotiations. We hear all the time: is Russia ready, ready? Yes, we didn’t refuse! They publicly refused. Well, let him cancel his decree and enter into negotiations. We never refused.”
“Listen, I already said: we didn’t reject negotiations. We don’t reject…”
“Tell the current leadership of Ukraine: listen, let’s sit down, negotiate, cancel your stupid decree and sit down and negotiate. We didn’t reject it.”
“If the Zelensky administration in Ukraine refused to negotiate, I assume that they did this on instructions from Washington. Now, if they see in Washington that this is a wrong decision, let them abandon it…”
Carlson: “I want to make sure that I understand you correctly. That is, you want to achieve a negotiated solution to what is happening now in Ukraine, right?
Putin: Correct.”
Putin announced one of the goals in his proposed negotiations – to retain all occupied Ukrainian territories:
Carlson: “Don’t you think that it would be too humiliating for NATO to now recognize Russia’s control over what was Ukrainian territory two years ago?”
Putin: “But I said: let them think about how to do it with dignity. There are options, but if there is a desire… if this realization has come, now think about what to do next. We are ready for this dialogue.”
Carlson: “Are you ready to say, for example, to NATO: congratulations, you won, let’s keep the situation as it is now.”
Putin: “You know, this is the subject of negotiations that no one wants to conduct with us, or, more precisely, they want to, but do not know how. I know what they want – I not only see it, but I know what they want, but they just can’t figure out how to do it. We thought of it and brought it to the situation in which we find ourselves. It was not us who brought it to this point, but our “partners” and opponents who brought it to this point. Okay, now let them think about how to turn it the other way. We don’t refuse.”
Putin announced the immutability of the main goals of his war against Ukraine – the elimination of its statehood and the complete assimilation of Ukrainians:
“I’ll give you some very unusual examples. There is a clash on the battlefield, a concrete example: Ukrainian soldiers are surrounded – this is a concrete example from life, military operations – our soldiers shout to them: “There is no chance, surrender! Come out, you will be alive, give up!” And suddenly from there they shout in Russian, in good Russian: “The Russians don’t give up!” – and everyone died. They still feel Russian.
In this sense, what is happening is, to a certain extent, an element of civil war. And everyone in the West thinks that the fighting has forever separated one part of the Russian people from the other. No. The reunion will happen. It hasn’t gone anywhere.
Why are the Ukrainian authorities taking away the Russian Orthodox Church? Because it unites not the territory, but the soul, and no one will be able to divide it.”
A short list of the main fakes, errors, absurdities, distortions, manipulations, falsifications discovered in Putin’s interview with Carlson. A detailed analysis requires considerable space and time and, hopefully, will be done in the near future.
On the time of “polonization” of Ukrainians:
Putin: So the Poles did everything they could to polonize and, in principle, treated this part of the Russian lands quite harshly, if not cruelly. All this led to the fact that this part of the Russian lands began to fight for their rights. And they wrote letters to Warsaw, demanding that their rights be respected, so that people would be sent here, including to Kyiv…
Carlson: When did this happen, in what years?
Putin: This was in the 13th century.
On the “transfer” of Right Bank Ukraine to Poland in 1921:
“A peace was signed with Poland in 1921, according to which the western part, on the right bank of the Dnieper, again went to Poland.”
On Danzig, which “turned” into Gdansk after WWI:
“After World War I, this part of the territory was given to Poland, and the city of Gdansk replaced Danzig.”
On the “overplayed, intractable” Poland, which “forced” Hitler to start WWII:
“…since [Poland] did not give up the Danzig corridor, the Poles nevertheless forced it, they played too hard and forced Hitler to start World War II with them. Why did the war start on September 1, 1939, from Poland? The country turned out to be intractable. Hitler had no choice in implementing his plans to start with Poland.”
On the “return” of “Russian historical territories” under the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact:
“…according to the well-known Molotov-Ribbentrop protocols, part of these territories went to Russia, including Western Ukraine. Russia, under the name of the Soviet Union, thus returned to its historical territories.
After the victory in the Great Patriotic War, as we say, this is the Second World War, all these territories were finally assigned to Russia, to the Soviet Union.”
On Lenin, who “endowed” Ukraine with the Northern Coast of the Black Sea:
“Lenin… endowed the emerging Soviet Ukraine with lands, people living in these territories, even if they had never been called Ukraine before; for some reason, during its formation, all this was “infused” into the Ukrainian SSR, including the entire Northern Black Sea region, which was received during the time of Catherine II and, in fact, never had any historical relation to Ukraine.”
On the Black Sea region, “which had no relation” to Ukraine:
“So, Soviet Ukraine received a huge number of territories that never had anything to do with it at all, primarily the Norther Coast of the Black Sea region.”
On Russia’s “gifts” to Ukraine:
“Then there was 1991 – the collapse of the Soviet Union. And everything that Ukraine received as a gift from Russia, “from the master’s shoulder,” she took with her…
Ukraine, having received all these southeastern territories as a gift from the Russian people…”
On “artificial nature” of Ukraine:
“Therefore, we have every reason to say that, of course, Ukraine, in a certain sense, is an artificial state created by the Stalin’s will.”
On how Russia “dissolved” the USSR for the sake of “cooperation with the West”:
“Russia even voluntarily and proactively agreed to the collapse of the Soviet Union and proceeds from the fact that this will be understood by the so-called – already in quotes – “civilized West” as a proposal for cooperation and alliance. This is what Russia expected from both the United States and the so-called collective West as a whole.”
On the “deception” of Russia by the West, which “promised” not to expand NATO to the east:
“You deceived us – when I say ‘you,’ I don’t mean you personally, of course, but the United States – you promised that there would be no expansion of NATO to the east…
Now regarding NATO’s expansion to the east. Well, they promised: there will be no NATO to the east, there will be no inch to the east, as we were told. And what’s next? They said: well, we haven’t recorded it on paper, then they would expand it. Five expansions, including the Baltic states, all of Eastern Europe, and so on.”
On his “disagreement” with NATO expansion:
“But we never agreed with NATO expansion, much less we never agreed that Ukraine would be in NATO.”
On “unanimity in NATO”:
“I will now give one more example, concerning Ukraine. The U.S. leadership “pressed” – and all NATO members vote obediently, even if they don’t like something.”
On the “military appropriation” of the territory of Ukraine by NATO and “NATO military bases” on the territory of Ukraine:
“We did not agree that there would be NATO bases there without any conversations with us…
And still against the backdrop of the military appropriation of this territory and the opening of doors to NATO…
…the Ukrainian leadership, which was under complete control of the United States, suddenly announced that it would not implement the Minsk agreements – they did not like anything there – and continued military activity in this territory. And in parallel, this territory was being developed by NATO military structures under the guise of various centers for training and retraining of personnel. They essentially began to create bases there.
…NATO bases, American bases, and English ones began to appear on the territory of Ukraine, creating these threats to us.”
On US “support” for terrorism in the North Caucasus:
“I have repeatedly raised the question that the United States should not support either separatism or terrorism in the North Caucasus. But they continued to do it anyway. And political support, information support, financial support, even military support came from the United States and its satellites in relation to terrorist groups in the Caucasus.”
On the responsibility of the US leadership for Putin’s invasion of Crimea, its occupation and annexation:
“It’s just that the political leadership of the States drove us to a line beyond which we could no longer cross, because it would destroy Russia itself. And then we could not throw our co-religionists and, in fact, part of the Russian people under this military machine”
On how the CIA told Putin about its work with the opposition in Russia:
Putin: I say to the director of the FSB: write to the CIA, is there any result of the conversation with the President? He wrote once, twice, and then received an answer. We have the answer in the archives. The answer came from the CIA: we worked with the opposition in Russia; We believe that this is correct and we will continue to work with the opposition.
Carlson: Opposition to you?
Putin: Of course, in this case we meant the separatists, the terrorists who fought with us in the Caucasus. That’s what we were talking about. They called it opposition.
On the Maidan revolution, carried out “with the support of the CIA”:
Carlson: With the support of whom?
Putin: With the support of the CIA, of course…
The CIA completed its job in carrying out the coup d’état…
On the fact that the Nord Stream gas pipeline was blown up by the CIA:
Carlson: Who blew up Nord Stream?
Putin: You, of course. (Laughter.)
Carlson: I was busy that day. I didn’t blow up Nord Stream.
Putin: You personally may have an alibi, but the CIA [CIA] does not have such an alibi.
On Yanukovych, “who decided to think” in November 2013:
“Yanukovych began to calculate how much Ukraine would win and how much it would lose, and announced to his counterparties in Europe: I have to think again before signing. As soon as he said, destructive actions began among the opposition, supported by the West, and everything reached the Maidan.”
On the “coup d’etat” in Ukraine:
“They carried out a coup…
And the armed opposition in Kyiv carried out a coup…
In 2014, they carried out a coup d’etat, and those who did not recognize the coup d’etat, and this is a coup d’etat…
Initially, the conflict was provoked by a coup d’état in Ukraine…
…the opposition carried out a coup…
The USA… supported the coup…
But why a coup…
The CIA completed its job in carrying out the coup d’état…
…we in Russia believe that everything that happened after 2014, the primary source of power is a coup d’etat, and in this sense, even today’s government is flawed…
How did the events in Ukraine begin? Since the coup d’etat and the beginning of hostilities in the Donbass – that’s where…
Let’s return to the fact that a coup d’etat was carried out in Ukraine in 2014…”
On Yanukovych’s “non-use of force” during the 2014 Maidan revolution:
“Yanukovych did not use, as the Americans asked us, either the armed forces or the police.”
On how the Ukrainians started the war in 2014 and 2022, and Putin decided to end it in 2022:
“[The Ukrainians] started the war in Donbass in 2014, using aviation and artillery against civilians. After all, this is where it all began…
They started the war in 2014. Our goal is to stop this war. And we didn’t start it in 2022, this is an attempt to stop it…
All this together led to the decision to end the war, which was started by neo-Nazis in Ukraine in 2014, by armed means…
We are not attacking anyone…
And we protect our people, ourselves, our Motherland and our future…”
On the “impossibility” of a military victory over Putin:
“For some reason, everyone has the illusion that Russia can be defeated on the battlefield – out of arrogance, from a pure heart, but not from a great mind.”
On Zelensky’s ban on negotiating with Putin:
“The President of Ukraine has legally prohibited negotiations with Russia.”
On Russia’s fifth place in terms of GDP by PPP in the world and its first place in Europe:
“Look, the Chinese economy has become the first economy in the world in terms of purchasing power parity; in terms of volume, they have long overtaken the United States. Then the USA, and then India – one and a half billion people, then Japan, and Russia in fifth place. Over the past year, Russia has become the first economy in Europe.”
On the population of Indonesia:
“See how Indonesia is developing! 600 million people.”
On “similarity and equality” of the main world religions’ values:
“…in all the world religions that I just talked about and which are traditional religions of the Russian Federation, in fact, the main theses, the main values are very similar, if not they are the same.
…people who profess different religions in Russia consider Russia their Motherland – they have no other Motherland. We are together, this is one big family. And our traditional values are very similar.”
On the “careful” attitude of the Russian authorities towards the culture and religions of the conquered peoples:
“When Russia expanded and absorbed other peoples who profess Islam, Buddhism, Judaism, Russia has always been very loyal to those people who profess other religions…
…the Russian authorities have always been very careful about the culture and religion of those peoples who came into the Russian Empire.”
On Russian culture:
“…we have a people-oriented culture.”
Once again, not a word about the Budapest Memorandum.